Preamble

The House met at Twelve of the Clock, Mr. SPEAKER in the Chair.

Oral Answers to Questions — UNEMPLOYMENT.

ASSISTANCE (APPEAL TRIBUNALS).

Mr. James Griffiths: asked the Minister of Labour the reasons for discontinuing the practice of inviting workmen's representatives to sit on the Appeal Tribunals under the Unemployment Assistance Board; and, in view of the fact that the decisions of these tribunals are final, will he take steps to restore the normal practice?

The Minister of Labour (Mr. Ernest Brown): The modifications in the practice relating to Appeal Tribunals under the Unemployment Assistance Act to which the hon. Member refers were introduced at the outbreak of war in the expectation that conditions arising out of the war would make it impracticable to secure the regular attendance of all the members of the tribunal. The normal practice has now been restored.

WINTER ALLOWANCES.

Miss Wilkinson: asked the Minister of Labour why unemployed men in the hostel at Hebburn who have received the extra winter relief of is for the last two winters, have now been refused it when their conditions remain the same but their commitments are greater owing to the increased cost of living?

Mr. E. Brown: I understand from the Unemployment Assistance Board that arrangements have now been made to pay these men winter additions, with effect from the commencement of the period during which winter allowances are in operation.

STATISTICS.

Mr. McEntee: asked the Minister of Labour what number of men, women, boys, and girls were registered as unemployed at the outbreak of war; what is

the number to-day; and will he make a statement of the steps being taken to organise this wasting labour power for productive work?

Mr. E. Brown: As the reply includes a table of figures I will, if I may, circulate it in the OFFICIAL REPORT.

Mr. McEntee: Can the right hon. Gentleman answer the last part of the question which is not concerned with figures?

Mr. Brown: As regards the last part of the question, I would refer the hon. Member to the statement I made in the House yesterday.

Mr. McEntee: Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that the statement he made yesterday is not the same kind of statement which he has been making for the last 18 months, and when can we have something done instead of so much talk?

Mr. Brown: I think the statement I made was most effective, and that it was approved of.

Following is the reply:

The Table below shows the numbers of men, boys, women and girls registered as unemployed in Great Britain at 14th August and at 16th October, 1939.

Numbers registered as unemployed at



14th August, 1939
16th October, 1939


Men, aged 18 and over
908,752
903,127


Boys, under 18 years
38,347
43,920


Women, aged 18 and over
245,209
417,798


Girls, under 18 years
39,384
65.793


Total
1,231,692
1,430,638

As regards the last part of the question, I would refer the hon. Member to the statement I made in the House yesterday.

CHAUFFEURS.

Mr. McEntee: asked the Minister of Labour whether he is aware that large numbers of chauffeurs have become unemployed as a consequence of petrol rationing and of personal economy by private motor car owners; and will he


endeavour to secure employment for some of these men by the release of such ambulance, lorry and motor car drivers as are now employed on air-raid precautions and other war work and who are in receipt of wages but who do not normally require to work for wages?

Mr. E. Brown: I am aware that the number of chauffeurs registered as unemployed has increased since the outbreak of war. Every effort is being made to find them work either in their own occupation or in any alternative occupation for which they may appear to be suitable. As regards the second part of the question, I have consulted my right hon. Friend the Minister of Home Security, and I understand that he would not feel justified in suggesting the replacement of competent drivers who have volunteered and have now been trained in air-raid precautions or other war work, by others who have not had the specialised training required for the duties involved.

Mr. McEntee: Is it not a fact that these chauffeurs do not require any training, because it is their living, the work they have done all their lives, and that as these jobs have been taken by people who do not require wages these chauffeurs have to go on the dole?

Mr. Brown: My right hon. Friend does not take that view at all. The question I am asked to answer is about air-raid precautions. There is a double side to it. There is the question of driving and competency to carry out other work.

Mr. McEntee: With all due respect, that was not the question. The question was whether these people, who are not usually earning wages, are now taking these jobs?

COST OF LIVING.

Mr. Daggar: asked the Minister of Labour whether he is now in a position to state the attitude of the Unemployment Assistance Board towards the need for increasing the allowances to the unemployed to meet the increase in the cost of living?

Mr. E. Brown: The matter is under consideration of the Unemployment Assistance Board, and I am not yet in a position to make a statement.

Mr. Shinwell: When does the right hon. Gentleman expect to be in a position to

make a statement? Does he appreciate that time is passing, and that there is an increase in the cost of living?

Mr. Brown: I am aware of that.

Mr. R. Gibson: Will the right hon. Gentleman say what the material is which he is examining?

Mr. Brown: The answer is that the Board think it their duty to examine the position in the light of their statutory duties.

ALLOWANCES (DEDUCTIONS).

Mr. Daggar: asked the Minister of Labour whether he is aware that, as a result of a young man engaged in the mining industry having received an increase in his wage of 2s. per week because of the increase in the cost of living, the local officer of the Unemployment Assistance Board at Nantyglo, Monmouthshire, is deducting that amount from his father's, Mr. J. Thomas's allowance; and whether he is prepared to take the necessary action to prevent the continuance of this practice, as no financial benefit accrues either to the family or to the young man because of the recent increase in wages?

Mr. E. Brown: I am making inquiries into this matter, and will communicate with the hon. Member in due course.

LAND SETTLEMENT ASSOCIATION.

Miss Wilkinson: asked the Minister of Labour (1) the total amount of money advanced from public funds and private sources to the Land Settle-men* Association, Limited, in gifts or loan; and whether he has any statement to make on the present position of that association;
(2) how many holdings of the Land Settlement Association are vacant; and whether he has any plans for the utilisation of the estates of the Land Settlement Association in order that the public funds invested in that organisation shall not be wasted and that the agricultural production of the country should benefit accordingly?

Mr. E. Brown: The total amount of money advanced to the Land Settlement Association from public funds is £1,968,544, and I am informed that the


sum of £160,348 has been advanced from private sources. The total number of small holdings available is 1,030, of which 186 were vacant on 31st October, 1939. At a time when food production is a paramount consideration it is not proposed to recruit any more inexperienced industrial unemployed workers who require a long period of training, but active steps are being taken to fill all the vacant holdings with experienced agricultural tenants. In the meantime the vacant holdings are being cultivated by the Land Settlement Association in consultation with the county war agricultural committees. Undeveloped estates have been either let or are being farmed by the Land Settlement Association.

Miss Wilkinson: My I ask whether the Minister is going to publish the report of the committee of inquiry into the Land Settlement Association, and also whether anything is being done to preserve the very expensive machinery which, I am informed, is being left to rust on many of these holdings which have been left vacant?

Mr. Brown: Perhaps the hon. Lady will put those questions down.

Mr. T. Williams: Can the right hon. Gentleman give the House any information about what happened to settlers who found they were unsuited for this work?

Mr. Brown: Perhaps that question could also be put down.

Mr. R. Gibson: Can the right hon. Gentleman say what part of the country is covered by the activities of the Association?

Mr. Brown: The same request applies to this supplementary question.

Oral Answers to Questions — MILITARY TRAINING.

MEDICAL EXAMINATION.

Dr. Howitt: asked the Minister of Labour whether he is aware that many men who have been passed fit by medical recruiting boards have very soon been found to be far from fit; and whether he will take steps to see that all such mistakes are reported at once to the medical board which passed the man a fit and so prevent the recurrence of such cases?

Mr. E. Brown: My information does not confirm my hon. Friend's statement that many men are found to be unfit for service after medical examination, but I am carefully examining the position and will give consideration to his suggestion in the course of my examination. A few cases have been brought to my notice, and I have always arranged for reexamination.

Dr. Howitt: Does not the right hon. Gentleman realise that a lot of unnecessary suffering is caused by unfit men being passed for active service, and may I ask whether it would be possible for the boards to have the power to refer doubt-lul cases to specialists before the men are passed?

Mr. Brown: It is facts of that kind which I am now examining.

Mr. R. Gibson: Are these the same medical men who are employed by the Ministry of Pensions and always find the men they examine fit to work?

Mr. Brown: The medical board consists of a chairman and four other medical men.

UNIVERSITY STUDENTS.

Mr. Kennedy: asked the Minister of Labour how far university students are allowed to finish their courses without interruption for the purpose of military training; and whether he has considered a widespread desire that all students who are in the middle of their arts course should get the benefit of the list of reserved occupations?

Mr. E. Brown: Technical committees attached to University Joint Recruiting Boards are empowered to recommend in suitable cases that students who have reached a sufficiently advanced stage in their study of certain specified subjects of a scientific or technical nature should be employed on scientific or technical work either in the armed Forces or in industry or should complete their course of study before engaging in such work. As regards postponement on account of exceptional hardship, students of any university can on this ground apply individually for postponement of their liability to be called up for service. Steps are being taken to bring test cases of students before the Umpire, who is the final authority, and the principles laid down in his decisions will be made public.

Mr. R. Gibson: Can the right hon. Gentleman say when he will be in a position to make a statement in regard to the Arts-Divinity students?

Mr. Brown: I think very soon.

ENLISTMENT APPLICATION.

Mr. R. Gibson: asked the Minister of Labour whether he is aware that Mr. Donald Sutherland, who is registered in the Central Register No. C.R. 52434, applied to enlist in the Queen's Westminsters, and was, on 14th November, 1939, accepted at the battalion headquarters, but was turned down by the Ministry of Labour official at the Holloway Road recruiting station because of his registration in the Central Register; that he is still without instructions from the Ministry and although registered at the Employment Exchange, Broadley Street, N.W.8, is still without employment; and whether he has any statement to make as to employment for Mr. Sutherland?

Mr. E. Brown: I am making inquiries, and will let the hon. Member have a reply as soon as possible.

Mr. Gibson: Does the right hon. Gentleman appreciate the anxiety of this Scotsman to serve his country and that his efforts are frustrated by these delays?

Mr. Brown: I must refer the hon. Member to my answer.

KING'S ROLL.

Sir Smedley Crooke: asked the Minister of Labour the numbers of men now employed under the King's Roll scheme; the numbers at the nearest comparative date for 1938; and whether the difference is a fair reflection of the increase in the numbers of the civilian population now employed by the Government and local authorities and on Government contracts?

Mr. E. Brown: As regards the first part of the question, I regret that no information is available as to the number of men now employed under the King's Roll scheme. The latest information available relates to 3rd July, 1939; at which date the number of men employed under the scheme was 327,779 as compared with 318,286 at 4th July, 1938. As regards the second part of the ques-

tion, I have no doubt that the scheme has been of great value to disabled ex-service men.

Sir S. Crooke: Will my right hon. Friend use his well-known persuasive powers to induce the King's National Roll Committees throughout the country to make a special effort to place these disabled ex-service men in work?

Mr. Brown: We are always doing that, and my answer shows that the scheme has had very considerable success.

Sir S. Crooke: asked the Minister of Labour the position of the King's Roll National Council and local King's Roll Committees in regard to the holding of meetings during the present emergency period; and what steps are being taken to foster the interests of men affected by the King's Roll scheme?

Mr. Brown: The King's Roll National Council meets at half-yearly intervals and the date of the next meeting will be fixed by the Honorary Secretary. The meetings of the local committees were temporarily suspended on the outbreak of war, but arrangements are being made for their resumption. The work of the King's Roll has, however, been carried on in the meantime in consultation as necessary with the chairmen of the local committees.

INTERNATIONAL LABOUR OFFICE.

Mr. Hicks: asked the Minister of Labour whether he has any statement to make regarding the co-operation of His Majesty's Government with the International Labour Organisation having regard to the outbreak of war, and with particular reference to the budget of the organisation for 1940?

Mr. E. Brown: Yes, Sir. As has been stated by representatives of His Majesty's Government at meetings of the governing body of the International Labour Office on more than one occasion in the past year, the Government fully approve the decision reached by the governing body at its meeting in February, 1939, that, in the event of war, it should attempt to function as completely and efficiently as possible. Since the outbreak of war, there have been two meetings of the Emergency Committee of the


governing body and a representative of the Government has travelled to Geneva to attend each of them. He has had the opportunity of reaffirming at those meetings the Government's intention of cooperating to the fullest extent possible in present circumstances with the organisation. There is being held at present in Havana the second regional conference of the American States members of the organisation and the Government's support of the organisation has been further demonstrated by the attendance of an observer at this conference. It follows, from what I have said, that, in the view of His Majesty's Government, it is important that funds should be available to enable the work of the organisation to continue on as effective a basis as possible, and it is their hope that all States members, as they themselves, will be prepared to do their part in this respect. The representative of His Majesty's Government on the fourth committee, which is meeting early in December to discuss the League budget, as a whole, including that of the I.L.O., will be instructed to bear in mind the importance of such considerations, with a view to overcoming such difficulties as may arise in the course of the coming year.

EMPLOYMENT (GREENOCK).

Mr. R. Gibson: asked the Minister of Labour what was the course of employment in the Greenock area by numbers, percentages and trades at the last available date; and the corresponding data of a year ago?

Mr. E. Brown: I am having the desired information extracted, and will send it to the hon. Member.

Oral Answers to Questions — CIVIL DEFENCE.

BILLETING.

Sir Henry Morris-Jones: asked the Minister of Health whether he will reconsider the present scale of allowances in respect of children and helpers billeted upon householders in the reception areas, in view of the fact that the present scale does not cover the cost incurred by householders who, in many cases, have to make a greater financial sacrifice than they can afford?

The Minister of Health (Mr. Elliot): I have given careful consideration to the present scale of billeting allowances, but I am afarid that I cannot accept my hon. Friend's suggestion that they are inadequate.

Sir H. Morris-Jones: Is the right hon. Gentleman aware of the very heavy outlay which has been incurred in reception areas for clothes for children evacuated and whether in view of the financial sacrifices incurred by the hosts he will reconsider the scale payable by families of evacuees?

Mr. Elliot: As to clothes, they, of course, remain the responsibility of the parents, and I very much hope that no expenses will be allowed to fall upon the hosts in respect of such things.

EMERGENCY MEDICAL SERVICE.

Sir Percy Harris: asked the Minister of Health what salaries and allowances were paid by the Ministry of Health to house physicians and surgeons appointed to hospitals organised for war-time service on the outbreak of war; how this compared with rates of pay in voluntary hospitals; and whether there has been any alteration of these salaries and allowances since the beginning of the war?

Mr. Elliot: The basis of employment in the Emergency Medical Service of house officers was at the outset £350 per annum, normally on a three months' contract, plus board and lodgings or an allowance in lieu. This flat rate was somewhat in excess of the rates paid by voluntary hospitals, though these vary widely according to the type of hospital. This arrangement has now been reviewed and it has been agreed with the advisory committee, with which I have recently been in consultation, that no further individual enrolments of house officers in the Emergency Medical Service should be made, but that hospitals should receive a payment equivalent to £200 per annum for each of their house officers who are required for whole-time work under the emergency hospital scheme. The precise allocation of this payment however will be a matter for the hospital authorities.

Sir P. Harris: Can the right hon. Gentleman give an assurance that he is doing nothing to undermine the great London voluntary hospitals?

Mr. Elliot: Certainly, We are working in the closest possible consultation with the voluntary hospitals.

Mr. de Rothschild: asked the Minister of Health what authority was constituted to initiate and work out the present scheme of war-time hospital organisation; and whether the hospitals were asked to give their own views as to how each could best contribute to the building up of such an organisation?

Mr. Elliot: The war-time hospital problem was examined in the first place by a committee of distinguished medical men and of others representing the hospitals, under the chairmanship of Sir Charles Wilson. Making full use of this committee's advice, the present scheme has been worked out by my Department under the authority of Section 50 of the Civil Defence Act, 1939. My Department has, of course, had frequent consultations, both formal and informal, with the hospital authorities. Indeed, the views of the hospital authorities as to how each could best contribute to the building up of the war-time organisation have throughout been most fully taken into account.

Mr. de Rothschild: Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that there is a feeling among the directors and managers that they ought to have been taken into consultation?

Mr. Elliot: It is best to make representations to me. I have always done my best to meet any such cases. In fact I have specially arranged to meet those responsible for the administration of the hospitals.

Mr. de Rothschild: asked the Minister of Health what were the qualifications required of group officers appointed to take charge of the hospital sectors into which London and the home counties have been divided for the purpose of wartime organisation; and what are the responsibilities of these officers?

Mr. Elliot: The group officers were appointed as representing the voluntary hospitals in the London sectors, on account not only of their professional distinction but also of their administrative experience at the teaching hospitals, in which were concentrated much of the personnel and equipment required for the

working of the sectors. Their professional qualifications appear in the list circulated with my reply to my hon. and learned Friend the Member for Ashford (Mr. Spens) on 26th October. Their duties are, in general, to supervise the working of the emergency medical arrangements in their sectors and are explained in more detail in a memorandum, a copy of which I will send to the hon. Member.

Mr. de Rothschild: Was the Central Emergency Committee set up by the voluntary hospitals consulted about the appointment?

Mr. Elliot: After due consultation those officers were appointed by the hospitals themselves.

Sir Ernest Graham-Little: Is my right hon. Friend aware that the selection was not made either by the medical committees or the governing bodies of the hospitals; and will he take what measures he can to modify the selection thus made?

Mr. de Rothschild: asked the Minister of Health how many council and municipal hospitals in the area covered by London and the Home Counties have received additional staff and equipment in connection with the war-time organisation scheme; what percentage this represents of the total number of these hospitals; how many voluntary hospitals in the same area have been similarly prepared; what percentage this represents of the total number; and how many voluntary hospitals in this area have suffered a diminution of staff and equipment since the beginning of the war?

Mr. Elliot: I am afraid that I am not in a position to give precise figures in reply to the hon. Member's question without obtaining a special return from the group officer in each sector of the London region, and I am reluctant to ask for this at the present time. I can say generally, however, that the hospitals in the London region which have been increased in staff and equipment under the Emergency Hospital Scheme are mainly municipal, because such hospitals have necessarily to be sought in the outer part of the region, where there are comparatively few voluntary hospitals capable of expansion. I believe that all those voluntary hospitals in the outer area that


are capable of satisfactory expansion have been expanded. As regards the diminution of staff and equipment, the majority of hospitals inside the County of London, whether voluntary or municipal, have been reduced.

Mr. Isaacs: asked the Minister of Health whether he is satisfied that the equipment and organisation of the sector hospitals are adequate for the numbers of patients they are prepared to receive?

Mr. Elliot: I am satisfied that the majority of the sector hospitals are adequately provided for the number of patients which they are intended to receive, but in several of them the equipment and organisation need further improvement. I am making all possible use of the present period of quiescence to this end.

Sir E. Graham-Little: asked the Minister of Health whether he has been able to arrange more equitable conditions for members of the honorary medical staffs of the voluntary hospitals who have enrolled for whole-time service and who wish to transfer to part-time service and upon what terms; and whether, in view of the urgent necessity of providing teachers for the medical students now returning to London schools in progressively increasing numbers, he will facilitate the transfer of members of the voluntary staffs to the new and more equitable scheme, notwithstanding any agreements which they may hitherto have accepted?

Mr. Elliot: Yes, Sir, the arrangements which I am announcing to-day in reply to my hon. Friend the Member for Reading (Dr. Howitt) are designed to facilitate the transfer of consultants and specialists from whole-time to part-time service under the Emergency Hospital Scheme. They will be able to take advantage of these arrangements, notwithstanding that they may have accepted the part-time agreement hitherto in operation.

Sir E. Graham-Little: Is my right hon. Friend aware that last year there were over 10,000,000 attendances in the outpatients department of the hospitals and that all this service is now in abeyance, causing very great dislocation in the London area; and would my right hon. Friend

not only make a note of that fact but keep in mind the necessity of getting teachers for the medical students?

Mr. Elliot: I will certainly bear that point in mind. I would be unwilling to accept the suggestion that the out-patient services have been in abeyance for London hospitals for 10 weeks, because it is quite at variance with information supplied to me by London hospitals.

Sir E. Graham-Little: Does my right hon. Friend realise the suffering such dislocation causes, and that it is impossible to conduct satisfactorily out-patient departments without the honorary staff, who cannot be properly replaced by junior and inexperienced officers?

Mr. Elliot: The higher the medical skill which can be obtained by the outpatients' departments the better, but to suggest that the service is entirely in abeyance is not only going beyond the facts but discourages people from applying, which is undesirable.

Dr. Howitt: asked the Minister of Health whether he is now in a position to state what action he proposes to take with regard to the proposals made to him by the representative committee of the medical profession about conditions of service in the Emergency Medical Service; and whether he anticipates that specialists will now resume their work for the civil population at the general hospitals?

Mr. Elliot: I am glad to be able to announce that I have agreed with the committee in question upon a scheme which will enable specialists at present employed whole-time in the Emergency Medical Service to engage in other work, whether at general hospitals or in private practice. Under the scheme there will be attached to certain hospitals part-time specialists and consultants at a salary of £500 a year, which will cover not only the part-time work required at present but also any additional work appropriate to their grade that may be required by the circumstances. In other words, this salary will cover present conditions and also air attack conditions. My agreement with the committee also secures that the arrangements for providing medical services of all kinds for casualties shall be adapted to the varying types of hospitals, so that there may be the minimum interference with the ordinary medical work of the hospitals.

Dr. Howitt: Would my right hon. Friend make arrangements for an adequate return of nurses and hospital almoners to carry out the work of the hospitals?

Mr. Elliot: I trust that, as the work of the central hospitals extends, it will be possible to secure the return of adequate staff.

LICENSED PREMISES (EXTERNAL LIGHTING).

Mr. De la Bère: asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department whether, in respect of licensed houses, he will consider permitting the use of a small blue 5-watt lamp suspended either outside or just inside every door used by the public as an entrance or exit to the premises, in view of the difficulty which is experienced by the public in both entering and leaving licensed premises?

The Secretary of State for the Home Department (Sir John Anderson): No, Sir. If such a form of external lighting were allowed in respect of licensed premises it could not reasonably be withheld in the case of shops and other similar premises; and the amount of light resulting from any such concession would, in the aggregate, be such as to defeat the objects of the present restrictions on street-lighting.

Mr. De la Bère: Will the right hon. Gentleman give this matter a little further thought, because a little light would be so much appreciated as a concession in every district throughout the country? Perhaps he will give it his sympathetic thought.

Mr. Poole: May I ask whether the Minister has any knowledge of any difficulty which the hon. Member may have had?

AIR-RAID WARNINGS.

Mr. David M. Adams: asked the Home Secretary whether he is aware that false air-raid warnings are becoming frequent through faulty wires and short-circuiting; and whether he will consider the advisability of other means of warning, other than electricity, so as to prevent such an occurrence which took place at 3 a.m. on the 15th instant at Poplar, causing women and young children to leave their beds to rush out into the darkness and rain to obtain shelter?

Sir J. Anderson: I am aware that electrical faults have given rise to a number of false air-raid warnings, but I hope that the periodical tests which are now to be arranged will make these much less frequent.

Mr. Thorne: Who was responsible for giving the warning to this House the other day?

Sir J. Anderson: Not I.

AIR-RAID WARDEN (DISMISSAL).

Mr. Riley: asked the Home Secretary whether he has now made inquiries into the summary dismissal of Charles Fowler, of Liversedge, Spen Valley, from his post of air warden on the ground that he had written a letter to the local newspaper criticising the air-raid precautions administration; and whether he can make any statement on the matter?

Sir J. Anderson: The dismissal of a member of the public air-raid precautions services is a matter for the local authority concerned, in which I have no jurisdiction to intervene. I have, however, made inquiries into this particular case and am satisfied that the person concerned was dismissed for reasons other than those which have been suggested to the hon. Member. I have already communicated the result of my inquiries to the hon. Member.

Mr. Riley: Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that in the official note of dismissal there is a paragraph intimating that dismissed persons might at a future date apply for reinstatement, and that this paragraph was erased from this particular note, and why was it erased?

Sir J. Anderson: It was, perhaps, very unfortunate that a form was used which had been prepared for general issue and that paragraph was struck out. The reason was that it was considered inappropriate, in view of the fact that that dismissal and that of a number of others were the result of a special review, as the House knows, with the object of bringing the paid staff down to the minimum absolutely necessary.

AIR-RAID SHELTERS.

Sir Irving Albery: asked the Home Secretary whether local authorities have power to make suitable arrangements for the accommodation of nearby residents in


free Anderson shelters in cases where, owing to evacuation and other causes, such surplus accommodation is available?

Sir J. Anderson: Yes, Sir. Local authorities may in such cases give a direction under Regulation 23 of the Defence Regulations which will have the effect of making the surplus accommodation available to shelter persons not belonging to the household.

Sir I. Albery: Will my right hon. Friend take steps to see that that is brought to their notice?

Sir J. Anderson: It was brought to their notice in a recent circular.

MOTOR-CAR HEAD-LAMPS.

Mr. Salt: asked the Home Secretary whether, when considering the danger of the present practice which permits motorists to use either the near or off-side head-lamp, he will permit the use of both simultaneously provided the new regulation masks have been fitted?

Sir J. Anderson: I have no reason to suppose that any danger will arise from the option permitted to motorists to use the new head-lamp mask on either the near-side or the off-side lamp. The masked head-lamp should be invisible to oncoming traffic, and the position of the car will be indicated by the side-lights. The use of both head-lights simultaneously would increase the amount of light on the road surface to a degree which could not be permitted in present circumstances.

Mr. Salt: Does not my right hon. Friend consider that the concession asked for in my question would reduce the dangers now experienced from road accidents, and that the benefits would exceed the risks that might be incurred? Is he not aware that when the near-side headlight only is used it may be confused with the off-side light, especially as motorists are likely to drive close to the white line, and that this danger is even greater where heavy vehicles are concerned?

Sir J. Anderson: These matters are constantly the subject of experiment, and I am guided by the best advice I can obtain.

CYCLE REAR LIGHTS.

Brigadier-General Spears: asked the Home Secretary whether he is aware that

cyclists are frequently entirely invisible in the black-out owing to the fact that their rear lights are covered by their coats; and whether he will make an Order that rear lights on cycles must be fixed so low that they cannot be so obscured?

Sir J. Anderson: Under the Lighting Order it is already an offence for a cyclist to ride with his rear light obscured from view. I have no doubt that cyclists are fully alive to the necessity of seeing that the rear light is not obscured, and I do not think it is necessary to prescribe the height at which the light should be fixed.

WAREHOUSES, GLASGOW (LIGHTING RESTRICTIONS).

Mr. McGovern: asked the Home Secretary whether he is aware that a considerable number of large warehouses in Glasgow require to close down about 4.15 p.m., due to lighting restrictions; that a number of these establishments find it impossible to black-out their premises during the black-out hours and give them proper use of natural light during the day; and whether he can see his way, in view of Christmas shopping pressure, to allow relaxation of lighting restrictions up to 5 p.m.?

Sir J. Anderson: The Lighting (Restrictions) Order has recently been modified so as to provide that the black-out shall not come into force until half an hour after sunset. I should not, however, be justified in making any further concession in respect of particular classes of premises as suggested by the hon. Member.

Mr. McGovern: Does the right hon. Gentleman consider that 4.15 p.m. as the hour for the closing of many of these warehouses is having a very bad effect, especially on the Christmas trade, and cannot he grant a relaxation up to 5 p.m. until the Christmas trade is over?

Sir J. Anderson: Considerations of safety are just as important at Christmas time as at any other time.

Mr. McGovern: There is no danger yet.

Oral Answers to Questions — NATIONAL HEALTH INSURANCE.

Mr. R. Gibson: asked the Minister of Health whether he will take steps early in the next Session of Parliament to secure medical benefit under the National


Health Insurance Acts on a non-contributory basis to all dependants of men in the Service Forces?

Mr. Elliot: The scheme of National Health Insurance is on a contributory basis and I could not undertake the inclusion in the scheme of a new statutory benefit for which no provision was made in the contributions.

Mr. Gibson: Is the right hon. Gentleman aware of the very grave concern which is felt in Scotland and in England that these dependants should have to apply for poor relief in order to secure medical services?

Mr. Burke: Does the right hon. Gentleman agree that the allowance which is paid to meet the probable charges of the dependants of these serving men is very much too small?

Mr. Elliot: If it is a question of rates of contribution under the National Health Insurance scheme, it is a very big business.

Oral Answers to Questions — MINISTRY OF PENSIONS (TEMPORARY STAFF).

Mr. Creech Jones: asked the Minister of Pensions whether, in view of the volume of unemployment among competent clerical workers and shorthand typists, he will arrange that the temporary staff employed in his Department are appointed on the basis of qualification rather than marriage or other relationship with members of the higher permanent officers; and whether he proposes to take any action in regard to the employment of a governess, a saleswoman, and of daughters and nieces and wives of high permanent officers in his Department?

The Minister of Pensions (Sir Walter Womersley): The basis of qualification for temporary employment in the Ministry of Pensions is ability to perform the work required to be done. I am satisfied that in no instance has this basis been departed from. From searching inquiries I have made personally, I am also satisfied that in the few instances where relatives of permanent officials have been engaged, experience has proved that their qualifications are fully adequate to fill the posts to which they have been appointed.

Mr. Creech Jones: Is the Minister aware that the facts in question are not in dispute, and will he indicate that in the future such appointments made on the basis of personal relationship will not take place; and, further, will he keep in mind that there are a large number of qualified clerical workers unemployed who are eligible for work of this kind?

Sir W. Womersley: We have engaged over 400 temporary staff. The numbers of those who are related to any officers of the staff are very small indeed. I have given instructions that any new appointments should come before me before being made, but I would like to know from the hon. Gentleman should the relationship of a person to anybody else disqualify that person from working?

Mr. Ammon: Does the Minister suggest that there are not now unemployed competent persons who can do this work better than those who are employed?

Sir W. Womersley: These persons are fully qualified to perform their duties.

Mr. Levy: May I ask whether it would not be grossly unfair—

Mr. Speaker: rose—

Mr. McEntee: asked the Minister of Pensions the age and length of service of the daughter of the deputy-secretary of the Ministry who has been appointed to an executive post; what special qualifications she possesses; whether any increase of pay has been given to her since her appointment; if so, how long after the date of her initial appointment; whether her duties require her to act as personal secretary to her father; and whether it was necessary to transfer an established civil servant from this post in order to accommodate this lady?

Sir W. Womersley: The officer in question is aged 28 years and was appointed on 2nd September, 1939; by education and secretarial experience she was fully qualified for the duties of the post she fills. This is a temporary appointment and, in accordance with the usual custom, she commenced at the minimum salary for her grade. On the satisfactory completion of a month's probation, she was, in accordance with the common practice, graded for pay commensurate with the duties she was performing. Her duties require her to act as personal secre-


tary to her father, and my personal investigation reveals that she is carrying out exactly the same duties as her predecessors. As regards the last paragraph in the hon. Member's question, there was no transfer of any established officer to create this vacancy. Her immediate predecessor vacated the post on being selected in the ordinary course for promotion to the rank of a higher executive officer. This carried an increase of salary from £418 per annum to £500, rising to £650. The lady in question is receiving a salary of £200.

Mr. McEntee: May I ask whether the right hon. Gentleman is aware of the very grave dissatisfaction that exists in regard to promotions of this kind, whether the statement that he has just given is not a proof that the whole thing is wrong, whether he will take steps to alter this and to make promotions by merit and by service and not by personal relationships to people in power?

Sir W. Womersley: This is not a promotion. This is a purely temporary appointment and will be terminated as soon as circumstances warrant a reduction in staff. We are in this difficult position at the Ministry that in the wide expansion of our work we want all the permanent people we have on the staff to take higher executive posts and for supervising, and, as I said earlier, we have engaged 400 additional staff of a temporary nature. This lady in question is not on the established staff.

Mr. Shinwell: What would the right hon. Gentleman have said if the Labour Government—

Mr. Speaker: We cannot take all the morning on one question.

Oral Answers to Questions — NAVAL AND MILITARY PENSIONS AND GRANTS.

Mr. Frankel: asked the Minister of Pensions whether the concessions recently announced with respect to allowances for the children of men in the armed Forces are to be applied to the personal injuries scheme and the Royal Warrant?

Sir W. Womersley: I am glad to be able to announce that it has now been decided to remove the limits at present placed on the number of children in

respect of whom disablement pensioners may receive additional allowances, and these will now be paid in respect of all eligible children. The rate of allowance for each additional child so included will be that hitherto authorised for the last eligible child without reduction on account of the increased number. The necessary amendments will be made at a convenient date in the published Royal Warrant, Orders-in-Council and other instruments affecting the fighting Forces, and in the Personal Injuries (Civilians) Scheme, but the increases will, of course, take effect at once.

Mr. Frankel: In that case will the right hon. Gentleman present a new scheme to Parliament?

Sir W. Womersley: I have already answered that, but I shall have to make alterations at a convenient date in the warrants and other instruments so that the increases will commence forthwith.

Oral Answers to Questions — PRESS AND CENSORSHIP BUREAU.

Mr. Mander: asked the Home Secretary what function the news department of the Press and Censorship Bureau performs, other than the distribution of prepared information handed to it by other Government Departments; and whether, in those circumstances, it is necessary to employ a staff of 20 persons at a cost of approximately £10,000 a year?

Sir J. Anderson: The organisation and staffing of the Press and Censorship Bureau, of which the News Division is part, have recently been investigated on my behalf, and I am now considering the full report which I have received. In the meantime I may say that, apart from the distribution of information supplied by other Government Departments, the News Division acts as a link between the Press and Government Departments, and as a clearing house for newspaper inquiries, the volume of which is very great. It must be remembered that the staff of this division is so organised as to cover 24 hours a day for seven days a week.

Mr. Mander: Does the Department in fact do anything more in practice than pass on information from one place to another without exercising any critical faculty?

Sir J. Anderson: It certainly does more than that.

Mr. Vernon Bartlett: May I ask whether this is the only Department in the Ministry which is staffed by journalists and whether, if they are not considered to be doing useful work, they can be transferred to another Department where their technical knowledge can be used?

Sir J. Anderson: I have already said that the full report is having my consideration.

Oral Answers to Questions — WORKMEN'S COMPENSATION.

Mr. Whiteley: asked the Home Secretary whether he has considered communications from the Trades Union Congress General Council and the Miners' Federation, respecting increases in workmen's compensation; and whether the Government intend dealing with the matter?

Mr. Dunn: asked the Home Secretary whether, in view of the increased cost of living arising out of the war emergency, and the inadequate financial provisions of the Workmen's Compensation Act, 1925, he proposes at an early date to amend the legislation on workmen's compensation?

Sir J. Anderson: I am not at present in a position to add to the reply given on 21st November to a question by the hon. Member for Workington (Mr. Cape).

Oral Answers to Questions — PRISONERS.

Oral Answers to Questions — ASSAULT ON WARDER.

Mr. Radford: asked the Home Secretary for what reason has he refused to confirm the decision of the visiting justices of Walton Gaol, Liverpool, that a prisoner who had assaulted a warder should receive 12 strokes of the cat, particularly as this prisoner has been guilty of similar assaults on three previous occasions?

Sir J. Anderson: This case has been mentioned in a local newspaper as though it were a recent event, but, in fact, it occurred on 15th August last. I find that the question of confirming the award of the visiting justices was carefully considered, but in view of elements of doubt about some of the circumstances of the case, it was decided that it would be right for the offence to be dealt with by a form of punishment other than corporal punishment.

Mr. Radford: Is my right hon. Friend aware that this man had been guilty of three previous assaults on warders, and does he not feel that by his decision he has refused that protection to warders to which they are entitled in discharging their difficult duties?

Sir J. Anderson: It is quite impossible for me to go into all the details in reply to the question, but I can assure my hon. Friend that it is quite clear from the record that my predecessor's decision last August was based on special circumstances peculiar to the individual case.

Oral Answers to Questions — DISORDERLY CONDUCT.

Mr. Radford: asked the Home Secretary whether he has any statement to make with regard to the mutinous conduct on the part of prisoners in certain of His Majesty's prisons; and what steps he is taking to restore discipline?

Sir J. Anderson: On the outbreak of war steps were taken to reduce to a minimum the population of the prisons in the more vulnerable areas, especially in London. For this purpose, prisoners were transferred from the prisons in the big towns to other prisons; and, in order to find the necessary space for these emergency transfers, a certain number of prisoners who were nearing the end of their sentences were released. Some of the prisoners transferred have resented their removal to places at a distance from their homes, where it is less easy for them to receive visits from friends or relatives, and have regarded it as a grievance that, while some of their fellow prisoners had their sentences shortened, they themselves have received no similar benefit. As a result, there has been trouble in some of the provincial prisons, and a certain number of prisoners have sought to demonstrate their resentment by shouting in a disorderly fashion, and sometimes by breaking cell windows and smashing cell equipment. Appropriate disciplinary measures have been and are being taken against those who have been guilty of disorderly and insubordinate conduct. The emergency arrangements which had to be made on the outbreak of war threw a considerable strain on the prison staffs, and a word of commendation is, I think, due to them. They are dealing with the present difficulties resolutely, steadily and prudently.

Mr. Radford: Is it not a fact that a number of criminals have got the impression now that they can with impunity do anything they want to do, and are not such decisions as that of my right hon. Friend's predecessor, with regard to a prisoner who has assaulted warders four times, simply typical of the sort of encouragement that is being given to this sort of insubordination?

Sir J. Anderson: I think I ought to say that many of the reports which have appeared in the Press with regard to disturbances in prisons have been grossly exaggerated. If we are to succeed—as I am sure we shall—in restoring nonnal conditions in a short space of time, I suggest, it is most undesirable that undue prominence should be given to these matters.

Mr. Radford: Is it not desirable that due punishment should follow?

Oral Answers to Questions — INTERNATIONAL RECONSTRUCTION.

Mr. Mander: asked the Prime Minister whether he will consider the advisability, in connection with international reconstruction after the war, of giving careful consideration to the possibility of inclusion within the British Commonwealth of Nations of other States desirous of being associated therewith on mutually agreeable terms?

The Prime Minister (Mr. Chamberlain): His Majesty's Government in the United Kingdom see no advantage in considering the possibility suggested by the hon. Member unless and until it arises in a practical form.

Mr. Mander: Would it not be to the great advantage of the peace of the world if other States who desire to join this British Commonwealth of Nations could do so, and will the right hon. Gentleman be good enough not to rule this out?

Oral Answers to Questions — GERMAN PRISONERS OF WAR.

Sir Smedley Crooke: asked the Prime Minister whether, when dealing with suggested reprisals against the Germans by way of punishment for the indiscriminate laying of mines causing destruction to British and neutral shipping, with consequent loss of innocent

lives, he will consider the advisability of putting German prisoners of war, under guard, on British ships as a deterrent to their illegal marine policy?

The Prime Minister: No, Sir. Such action would be contrary to the convention governing the treatment of prisoners of war, to which His Majesty's Government are a party and which they will continue to observe.

Oral Answers to Questions — AGRICULTURE.

CREDITS.

Mr. De la Bère: asked the Minister of Agriculture whether the Government will now consider giving some increased credit facilities for agriculture, with a view to assisting the agriculturalists to increase the production of foodstuffs?

Mr. Bartlett: asked the Minister of Agriculture whether he will consider taking steps to provide cheap credits for farmers and, in particular, to reduce the present high rate of interest for loans]from the Agricultural Mortgage Corporation?

The Minister of Ariculture (Colonel Sir Reginald Dorman-Smith): As regards short-term credit, I would refer to the reply given to my hon. Friend the Member for Devizes (Sir P. Hurd) on 16th November. The position as regards long-term credit, and in particular the rate of interest on loans from the Agricultural Mortgage Corporation, was discussed during the passage into law of the Agricultural Development Act, 1939, and I do not think that subsequent events would justify any modification in the views which I expressed on that occasion.

Mr. De la Bére: Does my right hon. and gallant Friend not realise how vitally necessary it is—and, indeed, that it is the duty of the Government—to see that those farmers who have ploughed up their land under the Government's scheme should have sufficient credit to carry them over to the time when they are able to sell their new crops?

Mr. T. Williams: Has the right hon. and gallant Gentleman invited his War Executive Committee to ask the district committees what exactly is the position of those farmers who have been called upon to plough up their land?

Sir R. Dorman-Smith: No, Sir, I did not ask them to perform that duty. It would be a very difficult duty for them.

Mr. De la Bère: Would my right hon. and gallant Friend take some positive action now?

Sir I. Albery: asked the Minister of Agriculture whether he will make arrangements for short-term credits at low interest rates to be granted to farmers ploughing up old grassland in addition to the £2 an acre grant?

Sir R. Dorman-Smith: Arrangements have been made to expedite the payment of the £2 per acre grant for ploughing up grassland and provision has also been made for county committees to enter into arrangements with contractors for the ploughing up of land, the charges being guaranteed by ear-marking the appropriate amount from the £2 per acre grant to which the farmers will be entitled when the work is completed. As regards credit generally, I have every reason to hope, as I have already stated, that, with the prospect of satisfactory markets and prices, additional credit for farmers will be forthcoming from the normal sources of supply.

Sir I. Albery: Does my right hon. and gallant Friend feel sure that sufficient acreage of grassland will be ploughed up without this additional assistance?

Sir R. Dorman-Smith: Yes, I think so.

WASTE FOOD.

Sir P. Harris: asked the Minister of Agriculture whether, in view of the shortage of feeding-stuffs, he will take action to encourage the collection in towns of food-waste and scraps for feeding pigs and poultry, and, with this end in view, endeavour to obtain the cooperation of householders as well as, for collection purposes, the services of boy scout and guide organisations as well as local authorities?

Sir R. Dorman-Smith: My right hon. Friend the Minister of Supply is issuing a circular urging local authorities to arrange for the systematic collection and disposal of waste materials of all kinds, and I shall take all possible steps to support and supplement that appeal so far as it concerns waste food suitable for feeding to pigs and poultry.

Sir P. Harris: Does the Minister realise that one of the difficulties is to obtain suitable metal containers? Would he see whether it is possible to obtain some substitute, so as to facilitate this most important work?

Sir R. Dorman-Smith: I will consult my right hon. Friend about it.

HEIFER CALVES AND FAT COWS (SLAUGHTER).

Mr. T. Williams: asked the Minister of Agriculture whether he has considered the advisability of prohibiting the slaughter of cow calves during the war, and what decision was reached?

Sir R. Dorman-Smith: Yes, Sir. This question is under close review, but it has been decided that present circumstances do not warrant any restriction or prohibition on the slaughter of heifer calves. It is hoped that the economic position of the milk industry will make it profitable for farmers to sell for rearing animals that are suitable for that purpose.

Mr. Williams: Is the right hon. and gallant Gentleman not aware of the grave possibility of farmers taking advantage of this opportunity to make ready money by selling their cow calves, and thereby endangering not only our future milk supplies, but our future beef supplies?

Sir R. Dorman-Smith: Yes, Sir, we are watching that possibility, but if we prohibited all slaughter of such calves, it might well be that the meat supply would be endangered.

Mr. Williams: asked the Minister of Agriculture whether he has any in formation concerning the abnormal slaughter of in-calf cows; and has any estimate been formed of what the effect of this will be in the future?

Sir R. Dorman-Smith: The information in my possession indicates that sales for slaughter of fat cows during October were heavier than normal, though I have no information to show how far this increase could be attributed to slaughterings of in-calf cows. The increase was, no doubt, due to higher prices for fat-cows, caused by local and temporary shortages of imported meat. Larger supplies of imported meat are now available, and prices of fat cows have since fallen, with a consequent reduction in the number of such animals sold for slaughter.

Mr. Williams: Is not the exact explanation that, while prices were fixed by the Food Minister for high-grade cattle, there was no sort of control of the price of in-calf cows, and hence the abnormal slaughter of that type?

Sir R. Dorman-Smith: There was no control of prices of cattle.

Mr. John Morgan: There is now, is there not?

WOMEN'S LAND ARMY.

Mr. Lipson: asked the Minister of Agriculture the total annual cost under existing conditions of the administration of the Women's Land Army; and whether, since recruiting for this has now ceased, and with a view to economy, he will reorganise its administration on the basis of voluntary unpaid service?

Sir R. Dorman-Smith: The estimated cost of headquarters administration under existing conditions is about £8,000 per annum and the estimated cost of the expenses of Women's Land Army committees is about £35,000 per annum. The director of the Women's Land Army and the chairmen and members of Women's Land Army committees are giving their services free. Moreover, clerical assistance in county committee offices, and in a number of cases office accommodation and typing assistance also, is being obtained free of cost. Although no further recruiting campaign for the Land Army is being conducted at present, it is necessary to prepare to meet demand for additional labour on the land next year, and enrolment therefore continues of volunteers who are willing to offer full time service, as and when required, and to work anywhere that employment offers. Volunteers are, however, being warned that they may have to wait some time before there is a demand for their services. It is essential to continue to provide now for an efficient organisation capable of preparing to deal with the needs of the future as well as those of the present. I see no reason, therefore, for reorganisSng the present administration, which is already receiving a great deal of voluntary assistance.

Mr. Lipson: Is my right hon. and gallant Friend satisfied that the amount of work still to be done justifies this very heavy expenditure? Will he not take steps to find out whether some of these

offices can be filled by voluntary unpaid people, on the lines of the women's voluntary services?

Sir R. Dorman-Smith: I am satisfied that the money is being well spent. We have a great mass of voluntary assistance.

Oral Answers to Questions — ENEMY ALIENS.

APPEALS.

Mr. Mander: asked the Home Secretary the number of appeals that have been heard by the Home Office Advisory Committee on Aliens and the number of appeals which are now pending; to what extent these appeals are from the decisions of the tribunals; and whether the tribunals themselves are giving reconsideration to the cases of those to whom A and B certificates have been granted, and to what extent?

Sir J. Anderson: Hitherto the advisory committees have been dealing with persons interned under Regulation 18E and with enemy aliens interned on the outbreak of war, and they have dealt with 92 such cases. As regards enemy aliens who have been interned after examination by the tribunals, it is not contemplated that as regards all or most of these cases a further examination by the advisory committee shall be undertaken; but, if representations are made to me by or on behalf of any alien so interned, such representations will be carefully considered, and I have arranged that any doubtful cases shall be referred to the advisory committees, so that I may have the benefit of a report from them. As regards the second part of the question, I have no information at present as to the number of cases in which tribunals may think it desirable to reconsider cases of persons whom they had not exempted from the special restrictions in the Aliens Order applicable to enemy aliens.

Mr. Mander: Is it the case that no instructions have been given to the tribunal to re-hear cases of that kind?

Sir J. Anderson: The tribunals were informed in a circular that it was open to them to reconsider any cases they have dealt with.

Miss Rathbone: Is the right hon Gentleman aware that in the case of a very large number of people who have been given B certificates, if the tribunals


desire to reconsider their cases, that cannot be done because many of the cases were dealt with before the Home Office issued the B certificate?

Sir J. Anderson: I have sent the hon. Member a further letter explaining the exact circumstances.

BRITISH-BORN WIVES.

Miss Cazalet: asked the Home Secretary what steps he is prepared to take to enable British-born women married to subjects of a State at war with His Majesty to regain their British nationality?

Sir J. Anderson: I fully recognise the importance of this matter to many women whose loyalty to their country of birth is strong. Whereas in the last war naturalisation was granted only to women separated from their husbands, I do not propose to adopt the same restriction now, but will limit my discretion only to the extent that is necessary to avoid impairing measures of control which must be maintained in time of war over persons of enemy nationality. If a British-born woman is living with a German or Austrian husband whom it is necessary on security grounds to subject to the special restrictions applicable to enemy aliens it would not as a rule be right to naturalise the wife and therefore to relax the restrictions which are applicable to such a household; but many of the Germans and Austrians now here are in sympathy with this country in the struggle in which we are engaged, and arrangements have been made to exempt such persons from the special restrictions applicable to enemy aliens. In such cases no security measures would be impaired by naturalising a British-born wife. I have accordingly decided that any such woman may, as soon as her husband has been exempted from the special restrictions, apply for naturalisation and that arrangements shall be made to deal with such applications expeditiously.

DEFENCE REGULATIONS (DETENTION, WANDSWORTH PRISON).

Captain Ramsay: asked the Home Secretary whether he will investigate the charges of Mr. G. E. Thomas, that, while detained at Wandsworth Prison, he was kept for 25 days in a cell lit only by artificial light; that his sheets were not changed for seven weeks; that his cell was

verminous; and that his complaint was disregarded?

Sir J. Anderson: The windows on the lower floors of this prison are protected by sandbags, and consequently at such times of the day as prisoners are in their cells artificial light has to be used. This prisoner was—in accordance with practice —allowed out of his cell during the working hours. The records show that 18 days after his admission he applied for a change of sheets. It was not possible to comply with his request at once (the emergency arrangements made in September with regard to the prison population had thrown an extra strain on the prison laundry) but his request was granted as soon as possible. He made no complaint that his cell was verminous and no confirmation can be found of this suggestion. He sent several communications to me while he was in prison and in these communications he made no complaints about his treatment.

Captain Ramsay: May I ask my right hon. Friend whether he is aware, as there are several witnesses to show, that these prisoners were kept in these ground floor basement cells with no light for three weeks and a 'few days preceding their appearance before the tribunal and thereafter placed in cells which had proper ventilation and daylight; and was this not likely to cause a breakdown in their morale; and will he assure the House that prisoners in future shall be given proper daylight all the time they are in prison?

Sir J. Anderson: There is absolutely no foundation for that statement. I made careful inquiry. There were a large number of prisoners in the same position as this prisoner, and they had to be, in the circumstances prevailing, accommodated on that particular floor where all the cell windows were sandbagged. There was no ground whatever for suggesting that any attempt was made to single out these men for exceptionally hard treatment.

Mr. Ammon: Is there any charge against the Home Office or any other Department?

Captain Ramsay: Will my right hon. Friend consider whether he will be prepared to have an inquiry into—

Mr. Speaker: rose—

Mr. McGovern: May I ask—

Mr. Speaker: There are a large number of questions on the Order Paper.

Mr. McGovern: Surely, as there are three questions here, it is cutting it very short.

Captain Ramsay: asked the Home Secretary for what reasons Mr. G. E. Thomas was detained in prison by an order signed by him under Regulation 18b of the Defence Regulations, 1939, from 1st September to 27th October; and for what reasons he was released?

Sir J. Anderson: On the outbreak of war my predecessor in office made an Order under the Defence Regulations for this man's detention on security grounds. His case was investigated by the advisory committee, to whom he had made objections: and, having reviewed the case in the light of the committee's report, I decided that he might be released subject to certain restrictions. The detention order was, therefore, revoked, and a restriction order substituted.

Captain Ramsay: Having personal evidence only yesterday of the methods whereby people in responsible positions may be supplied with bogus information purporting to be evidence, may I ask my right hon. Friend whether the evidence against this man was taken on hearsay or whether there were witnesses when the tribunal was hearing the case, and was the man allowed to call any witnesses in his defence?

Sir J. Anderson: I cannot answer all these detailed questions without notice, but I considered very carefully the very long and detailed report of the advisory committee. I am satisfied that they went into the matter with very great care, and they came to the conclusion that the man might safely be released, subject to certain restrictions which they recommended, and I made an Order consequent on their recommendations.

Captain Ramsay: Is it not permissible to ensure that witnesses be called in these cases?

Sir J. Anderson: They may be.

Captain Ramsay: asked the Home Secretary whether he is aware that after two appearances before the advisory committee investigating the cases of

prisoners detained under Regulation 186 of the Defence Regulations, 1939, on 25th and 26th September, Mr. G. E. Thomas, on return to Wandsworth Prison, was on each occasion detained for five hours in an apartment measuring approximately four feet by three feet, permitting him just room to sit down or stand up, with a grill and light over his head; and for what purpose and for what reason Mr. Thomas was maltreated in this manner?

Sir J. Anderson: When a person is brought back to a prison after being out of the prison for production before a court or for any other similar reason, it is the uniform practice that he: shall, before going to his cell, pass through the reception office so that any property he has with him may be checked and that the medical officer may see him. While prisoners are waiting to be seen by the medical officer they are accommodated in apartments such as are described in the question and are given papers and books to read. On one of the days in question there were 66 prisoners who had to be dealt with in accordance with this procedure, and it is possible that some of them were kept waiting for two or three hours. There was no differentiation between the treatment of this prisoner and of all other persons admitted to the prison.

Captain Ramsay: Is my right hon. Friend aware that there are at least three other witnesses who are prepared to say that they were put into these small cells for over four hours, and that one man was kept in such a cell for six hours; and will he see that in future people are not confined in this kind of space because it may, especially in any cases of persons who suffer from claustrophobia, have a serious effect upon their health and morale?

Sir J. Anderson: I think that that really is a matter for the medical officer of the prison. As I have explained, the circumstances were exceptional at the time, and 66 prisoners had to be seen by the medical officer, and undoubtedly mere may have been undue inconvenience.

Mr. McGovern: Is it true that this man was confined in a space four feet by three feet for three hours?

Mr. Dingle Foot: Can the right hon. Gentleman give the House an assurance that persons who are detained under regulations will be treated at least as well as


remand prisoners if they have committed no crime, and that they will not in any case be treated as though they were convicted prisoners?

Sir J. Anderson: At the prison in question there are, I think, 73 admittedly small compartments which are used for reception purposes. Of the 66 prisoners who had to be passed through this procedure on one of the days in question, more than 30 were remand prisoners, and it is tlie intention that persons dealt with under Regulation 186 should have treatment in all respects at least as favourable as that accorded to unconvicted persons?

Mr. McGovern: As to the point I put about four feet by three feet, is that true, because if it is true, it is a damn scandal no matter whether he is Fascist or Communist?

Mr. Speaker: The hon. Member must not make an observation of that character in this House.

HOUSE-TO-HOUSE COLLECTIONS

Mr. Craven-Ellis: asked the Home Secretary when the regulations made under the House-to-House Collections Act will be published, in view of the fact that the Act comes into force on the 1st January?

Sir J. Anderson: Draft regulations have been discussed with representatives of charitable organisations and I hope to make the regulations shortly. The time now available before 1st January is not, however, sufficient to enable police authorities to deal with applications and charities to make their arrangements; and I therefore propose to ask Parliament for powers under which the operation of the Act could be postponed for three months.

SUMMER-TIME.

Mr. Vyvyan Adams: asked the Home Secretary whether he will now undertake to restore summer-time to the public by 14th February, 1940, at the latest?

Sir J. Anderson: I have promised to consider the desirability of fixing an earlier date that prescribed by statute, but I am unable to make any statement at present as to what that date shall be.

Mr. Adams: Will my right hon. Friend bear in mind that on St. Valentine's Day the sun will set an hour later and rise five minutes earlier than on 19th November? Is there any reason under the sun why we should not be promised an earlier alleviation of the necessary but unpleasant black-out?

Sir J. Anderson: I have promised early consideration.

UNITY FOOTBALL POOLS.

Mr. Rhys Davies: asked the Home Secretary whether he is aware that the promoters of Unity Football Pools are acting in contravention of Section 26 of the Betting and Lotteries Act, 1934; and whether it is intended to introduce amending legislation to legalise actions of this nature?

Sir J. Anderson: I have no authority to decide a question of law, which can only be determined by a competent court, but I would refer the hon. Member to the case of Elderton v. United Kingdom Totalisator Company, Limited, which was decided by the Chancery Division of the High Court in 1935. The answer to the second part of the question is in the negative.

Mr. Davies: In view of the fact that that decision may be subject to appeal, will the right hon. Gentleman look into the matter further?

Sir J. Anderson: I think it is the law for the time being.

FOREIGN BUSINESS MEN (PERMITS).

Brigadier-General Spears: asked the Home Secretary whether he is aware that commercial travellers and representatives of business firms coming to this country to transact business which can be done in a few hours, frequently have to waste anything up to a week before they can obtain an exit visa; and whether, in view of the importance of facilitating the trade of this country, he will consider making some special arrangement which will obviate these, delays to business people?

Sir J. Anderson: I fully appreciate the inconvenience which may be caused to foreign visitors by the precautions required on security grounds in time of war,


and I am anxious that such inconvenience shall be reduced to a minimum. I am considering what arrangements can be made to ensure the more expeditious issue of permits to foreign business men who come to this country for short visits.

Brigadier-General Spears: Will my right hon. Friend bear in mind the fact that these people sometimes have to spend many days here over business which might be done in a few hours?

Sir J. Anderson: I realise the importance of doing everything possible to facilitate matters.

ALIENS (EMPLOYMENT).

Mr. David Grenfell: asked the Home Secretary whether he is yet in a position to make a further statement with regard to the employment of aliens?

Sir J. Anderson: As the answer is long, I will, with permission, circulate it.

Mr. Grenfell: Am I right in anticipating that the answer, when it appears, will contain all material information on this point?

Sir J. Anderson: Yes, Sir. It is a fully detailed answer.

Following is the answer:

Yes, Sir. As I have already indicated, His Majesty's Government desires to utilise the services of friendly aliens in any direction in which they can be advantageously employed without prejudice to the interests of British nationals. To this end I have made an Order under the Aliens Order under which aliens who arrived in this country before 3rd September last, and whose stay is subject to conditions, may take employment in Great Britain. They will only be able to do so, however, if permission is granted by my right hon. Friend the Minister of Labour and National Service. The permission will be given by means of an endorsement on the alien's certificate of registration for a specific employment and it will be a requirement that any subsequent change of employment must be approved by the Minister in the same way. This scheme will apply to Germans and Austrians who have been exempted by a tribunal from the restrictions applicable

to enemy aliens in the same way as it applies to other aliens. My right hon. Friend the Minister of Labour and National Service informs me that in considering whether permission should be granted in any case full regard will be had to the views of trade unions or similar organisations.

While it is not to be expected that the present moment opportunities for employment will be available for any large number of aliens covered by the Order, the services of certain classes of alien workers possessing high technical skill may be found immediately useful. Instructions to the local offices of the Ministry of Labour and National Service contain specific directions that local officers should not submit an alien for a vacancy unless they are satisfied that no suitable British worker is available. As a measure of security the Order also requires that an alien shall not without special permit take employment in a prohibited place within the meaning of the Official Secrets Act, 1911, as subsequently amended, or a protected place within the meaning of Regulation 12 of the Defence Regulations, or in any of the auxiliary war services set out in a schedule to the Order.

NEW ZEALAND EXPEDITIONARY FORCE.

Mr. Attlee: (by Private Notice) asked the Prime Minister whether he has any information as to the despatch of an expeditionary force from New Zealand overseas?

The Prime Minister: Yes, Sir. I have seen the statement issued by the New Zealand Prime Minister that the first Echelon of the New Zealand Military Force for service overseas, which has already undergone intensive training in New Zealand, will embark after completing its training in the Dominion as and when transport is available, and that steps are being taken to call up personnel of a second body. I am sure that I shall be voicing the sentiments of all Members of the House in saying how much we appreciate this further proof of the determination of New Zealand to do all in her power to bring to a successful issue the cause in which we are engaged.

MESSAGE FROM THE LORDS.

That they have agreed to,—

Amendments to—

Official Secrets Bill [Lords,] without Amendment.

PUBLIC PETITIONS.

Third Report from the Committee on Public Petitions brought up, and read;

Report to lie upon the Table, and to be printed.

ROYAL ASSENT.

Message to attend the Lords Commissioners.

The House went; and, having returned—

Mr. SPEAKER reported the Royal Assent to:

1. Restriction of Advertisement (WarRisks Insurance) Act, 1939.
2. Official Secrets Act, 1939.

PROROGATION.

HIS MAJESTY'S MOST GRACIOUS SPEECH.

Mr. Speaker: (standing in the Clerk's place at the Table:) I have to acquaint the House that the House has been to the House of Peers, where a Commission under the Great Seal was read. The LORD CHANCELLOR, being one of the Lords Commissioners, delivered His Majesty's Most Gracious Speech to both Houses of Parliament, in pursuance of His Majesty's Command, as followeth:

My Lords and Members of the House of Commons:

The shadow of war has once more fallen over Europe.

Despite the efforts of My Government to preserve peace, Germany, in violation of her solemn undertakings, wantonly invaded Poland. This neiv instance of German aggression and bad faith was a challenge which we could not have declined without dishonour to ourselves and without peril to the cause of freedom and the progress of mankind.

We seek no material gain. Liberty and free institutions are our birthright which we, like our forefathers, are resolved to preserve.

Members of the House of Commons:

I thank you for your ready acceptance of the heavy financial burdens rendered necessary as a contribution

towards meeting the severe expense of war. So prompt and ungrudging a response has deeply impressed the world and demonstrates the unflinching determination of My people to make every sacrifice necessary for victory.

My Lords and Members of the House of Commons:

The issue is clear. With united will My peoples here and overseas have dedicated themselves to the struggle. The spontaneous decision of My Dominions to participate in the conflict and the invaluable help which they are giving, and are about to give, to the common cause have been of the greatest encouragement to Me. With the aid of our faithful French and Polish allies we cannot doubt that our cause will prevail.

I pray that the blessing of Almighty God may rest upon your labours.

Then a Commission for Proroguing the Parliament was read in the House of Lords.

After which the LORD CHANCELLOR said:

My Lords and Members of the House of Commons; By virtue of His Majesty's Commission, under the Great Seal, to us and other Lords directed, and now read, we do, in His Majesty's Name and in obedience to His Majesty's Commands, prorogue this Parliament to Tuesday, the twenty-eighth day of November, one thousand nine hundred and thirty-nine, to be then here holden; and this Parliament is accordingly prorogued until Tuesday, the twenty-eighth day of November, one thousand nine hundred and thirty-nine.

End of the Fourth Session (opened 8th November, 1938) of the Thirty-Seventh Parliament of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, in the Third year of the Reign of His Majesty King George the Sixth.